Moms Off Script
Megg & Mere | Two Moms, One Podcast, Zero Manual | A Community for moms who don't always have it figured out and are writing the script as they go.
Moms Off Script
MOS E26: "Strong Women Build Strong Women"
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Welcome to Moms Off Script, a podcast for moms who are just trying to figure it out. This week Megg & Mere sit down with Katherine Welsh to talk about the importance of pseudo-mother figures and women empowering women, generationally.
CREDITS: Original content: Megg Abelein & Meredith Finch
Set design, videography: Megg Abelein & Meredith Finch
Music: Matt Beebe
Photography: Michelle Montinieri
Graphic Design: Alexia Dulieu
Editing & Production: Megg Abelein
Meg's kids came and hung out with me and my roommates like two weeks ago. They like drove them up to my house and we hung out with them for six hours or something. We had dinner. It was really cool. We hung out at the time. Love it for you. It was great. Alan and I had a great day today. My roommates are also so obsessed with the two of them. And so fostering that relationship is so important.
SPEAKER_01Cheers! Cheers! Want to do a podcast? I do want to do a podcast. I'm so excited about tonight's episode. This is gonna be really good. It's gonna be really good. Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Mom's Off Script. I'm Meg. And I'm Mary. And we are so excited because we have Catherine as a guest on the podcast for this episode. We're gonna get into all things pseudo-moms and just relationships with strong women. So without much introduction, we're gonna get right into it. Let's do it. Yeah. Enjoy our conversation. All right, guys. Welcome to Moms Off Script. Joining us today on the podcast, a stride scholar and soon-to-be graduate in chemistry and an education minor from Smith College. She was a four-year diver and back-to-back NCAA, Region 3 National Alternate. She has spent many summers doing research and development in the food science world while also traveling the globe with her family. She is a self-proclaimed baker, super roommate, hiker, power lifter, and big sister to my children. Please join me in welcoming Catherine Welsh to Mom's Off Script. Yeah. Welcome. I know.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Wow, it's all true.
SPEAKER_02It is all true.
SPEAKER_04Can we start with the fact that you're studying chemistry?
SPEAKER_03And what was the other one? I'm an education minor. Amazing. I kids are like cool. It's like essentially, I like took one class randomly and I was like, oh my God, this is awesome. I want to keep doing this. And I just like kept taking education classes. And you only need six for a minor. So yeah. Now you're gonna get a minor in education. I'm getting a minor in education. Well, you're in good company because we also think kids are pretty cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's true.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I also think, I mean, I haven't met your kids, but your kids are pretty cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Her kids are a lot like my kids, I feel like. Yeah, there's there's definitely some alignment different personalities. Yeah, they think they're each other's best friends. So yeah. Oh, also cute. Yeah. So what have you been up to?
SPEAKER_03Not much. Finishing out my semester. I've been reading Aquatar lately. Wait. For the first time? For the first time. Okay. I'm like 75% of the way through the first book, and I feel like it's slow.
SPEAKER_04Hang on, girl. Hang on. You need to finish the first book all the way. Then start the second. Like once once you're in the second one, you'll be like, oh my God.
SPEAKER_03Okay, because this is my first foray into romanticy. Like I've only ever done normal romance stuff. Yes.
SPEAKER_04Oh, I'm so excited for you. Okay. So yes, the first book is a little slow. Okay. And you'll finish it and be like, okay, like I don't really get what the hype was all about. Like, that was good, but like, why does this be why do people make this their whole personality? Okay. Once you finish all three books, well, actually, that's a lie. Actually, currently has five books out, but the first three are kind of a little bit more.
SPEAKER_03I think that's what Malay was saying. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Once you finish the first three, you're like, cool. The next year of my life is booked. I'll be reading the rest of these and then her other series, and then her other series. How many books does she have? Like 18. That's scary. Yeah, it's a lot. But but when you finish these, you'll be like, Thank God, there's so much more that I'm not even close to being done.
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah. Because I'm like, I'm like having trouble making myself read it, but I think you just need to like actually.
SPEAKER_04You do need to power through. It's a thousand percent worth it. The first book is a little bit tough to get through.
SPEAKER_03Okay, okay. This is promising.
SPEAKER_04It's worth it. It's so worth it. I just picked up a um regular romance book, but it's by the same author who wrote Fourth Wing. So if you if you end up liking Sarah J. Mask universe, yeah, if you end up liking Sarah J. Mask, that could be your next uh jaunt. But Rebecca Giarros wrote those books, and one of my girlfriends just sent me a regular romance book of hers. And I'm excited because it's a hard copy and it's a really pretty hard copy with like painted edges. I never get to read hard copies. I'm always a Kindle girly. So this is a tricky.
SPEAKER_03I just got a Kindle. Oh yes. Because I'm like, I really love like training books with my friends and stuff. I feel like since I've been in school, like I've been doing that, but like with moving and all that stuff. Yeah, okay. Like, I guess I'll bring a Kindle.
SPEAKER_04I thought to myself today, literally, as I'm holding this hard copy book, I never get to read hard copy. I'm like, what a luxury to have a hard copy book that I can lend to someone when I'm done and put it on my shelf.
SPEAKER_02So much fun. Yes.
SPEAKER_04Will that ruin your read streak? Maybe, but I'm not worried about that. I I track my books like just personally, but I'm not gonna honestly I will finish this book with under a week anyway. So it will keep writing streak in terms of weeks.
SPEAKER_01We all know that I know nothing about romanticity or words. Should we talk about diving now so you can participate? Well, I want to hear about any traveling.
SPEAKER_03Are you up to any traveling? I'm actually going to Missouri tomorrow, really randomly, um to visit one of my diving friends from high school, goes to Missouri State. So I'm going to visit her. And then this summer, nothing too crazy. I'm doing a road trip back home. I'm from Minnesota, so I'm doing a road trip back home with my two best friends. We're gonna stay two nights in Ann Arbor and then two nights in Chicago, so that'll be fun. And then maybe go up to Canada. My parents are building a house outside of Banff. Wow. We've been heading up there a lot.
SPEAKER_01I can't wait to visit.
SPEAKER_03I know. I'm so excited for you to know that we were having discussions about the pizza oven this weekend, so yeah.
SPEAKER_04That sounds so good. Oh yeah. I could go for a hot pizza right now.
SPEAKER_03With a hot tub right there, too.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. Did I not tell you about the hot tub? No, I did not hear about that.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that was like one of my requirements was having a hot tub.
SPEAKER_01Okay, we're sewing. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_04So next time you're a guest on the podcast, we can do it from there. Yeah in the hot tub while eating.
SPEAKER_01Hot pizza. Perfect. Alan's gonna eat up the pizza thing when he finds it. Alan would love a pizza. I know. I feel like Alan and your dad would hit it off.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I'm obsessed with how nerdy he is. I like love it. Alan? Yeah. Yeah, he is a nerd. Did you know Alan and I played Dungeons and Dragons together? As you should. Yes. I love that. I don't think I could ever play Dungeons and Dragons, but I love that for you. It's really fun.
SPEAKER_04It's it's Mare's first time playing Dungeons. Yeah, my first time. We have a mutual friend who wanted to DM and invited me and my husband, Alan, another one of the neighbor dads, and one of one of the DM's friends. So it's five of us. I'm the only woman. I mean let's just say it shows in terms of our character choice. Yeah, that's right. They're like running into woods and like doing weird stuff. I'm like, guys, what are we doing? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I bring some much needed femininity to the party. Talk to me a little bit about diving and how does it feel to like wrap up your career? You're done.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's over. So I started diving it in sixth grade. Okay. So I've been diving for 11 years, which is crazy half my life. It's so weird to like actually be done. Yeah. Because I feel like a part of it is me being like, oh, my season's just ended, which has happened every year, every last four years. But then also the idea that, oh, I'm never gonna do it again in the same capacity. And we're like running diving lessons right now. I really do love coaching, and I'm gonna go home and coach this summer, so that'll be fun. But we'll like get on and fool around on the boards like in between. And it's like I never have to do this dive again. Thank God. Okay, there's definitely moments like that. And there's also moments where it's like, what am I gonna do with all of my time and energy? I need something to like funnel that energy into, and I don't yet know what that is.
SPEAKER_04But that's kind of fun though. Meg really wants to be running. Shocking. Don't let her suck you in.
SPEAKER_02I'm like scared. Don't be scared.
SPEAKER_04It's a rabbit hole. We're gonna run the Copenhagen marathon.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, because you were like, that's a great way to explore new city. And I was like, it is a good way to explore. It really is. Is Copenhagen Hilly?
SPEAKER_01No, super flat. Oh, we should say, where are you going next time? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I'm going to get my master's degree in food science at the University of Copenhagen. So I'm moving to Denmark in August.
SPEAKER_04So education, chemistry, food science, like what's the game plan here?
SPEAKER_03I want to work in food development. So something with sustainable food design. I really love like analytical chemistry, which is figuring out what's in things using instruments and things like that. And so I'd love to kind of combine all of those things. Wait, cool. So in Denmark, you have to start running.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Denmark is very safe. She said she tricked me into doing a 5K with her. So how do you trick someone into the Denver? And this part of the Lightning Round.
SPEAKER_01We'll introduce you to the Lightning Reagan's house.
SPEAKER_03You'll find out about the Lightning Rounds later today. I'm going to be committing to a freaking marathon or something. Don't worry.
SPEAKER_01Don't worry. We'll get you. No, I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_03I'm not going to make you run a marathon. Yeah. She Meg is the only person who can get me to run consistently. I mean, I that doesn't surprise me knowing you. We should probably say for our listeners, let like explain your relationship together. So Meg brought me to Western Massachusetts. Oh Meg was the Smith coach my first two years on the team. And we got very close very quickly. And when asked why, my usual uh go-to answer is that people in my life just started dying, unfortunately. And I like kind of imprinted a little bit, I think. And found that support in Meg, which was lovely because I didn't know anyone here when I moved. And so the first time I showed up to get a tour of Smith, Meg showed up with her six-week old. And I was like, oh my God, I have to come here. This is awesome. And then yeah.
SPEAKER_04So you dove for her for those two years.
SPEAKER_03Yep. Dove for her for two years. And then when she left Smith, I just kept showing up at her house essentially.
SPEAKER_01All right. So the reason you're here tonight, kind of going off of that, is to talk a little bit about women in your life and kind of like pseudo-moms and mother figures. So let's start with your actual mom. Your mom's a pretty remarkable woman. I'm obsessed with my mom. That's so cool. I love this.
SPEAKER_04She's so cool. Tell me more. I want to know everything.
SPEAKER_03So my mom is a professor at a university near our house. She teaches HR.
SPEAKER_04Um, which having, I'm sorry, she teaches HR, like human resources. Yeah. I didn't know you could teach that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like in their business school. Okay. There's some like MBA stuff.
SPEAKER_04And then she like teaches like it's a major. Yeah, that makes sense. I've literally never heard of that. It makes sense to me that like someone could major in HR, but I've never heard it in that context. So thank you for explaining.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, of course. And having a mom who does that is like the greatest superpower ever because we talked conflict management around my dinner table growing up. And so when I get put in sticky situations or whatever, I'm like, okay, we're gonna script this conversation, we're gonna write it down, we're gonna think about all sides, we're gonna pause, remembering there's no tone in text. So this text that I think is angry maybe isn't actually that angry. Remembering all of those things is so nice. She also looks at all my resumes and helps me with job applications, which is lovely. Yeah. So my mom has a PhD and she got her PhD while um pregnant with my youngest brother.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_03So I have an older brother and a younger brother. My younger brother is four and a half years younger. She finished her PhD while pregnant with him, which I like don't understand me how that's possible. I know. That's wild. And then she also has two master's degrees. The plan is for me to keep getting more education. I would love to get a PhD someday, but I would be the third generation of women on my mom's side of the family to get a PhD, which I think would be so cool. That's wicked cool. Yeah, I'm obsessed with her.
SPEAKER_04That's Meg tells me something about the way mail should be addressed in your house. Is it the way? Yes.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so my dad, I also love my dad to be very clear, but my dad has an MBA, and so technically, all male coming to our house should say Dr. and Mr. Welsh, which I think is sick. I love that. She doesn't like actually utilize it as a title, which is like totally fine. But I think that could be like the greatest thing ever because it's like such a flex. Yes.
SPEAKER_01All right, so that's your goal in life is to be the first addressed on an envelope.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Wow.
SPEAKER_04So you're starting off really strong with like this smart, powerful, compassionate mother figure who's like really trailblazed for you. Like, yeah. She's setting the bar.
SPEAKER_03She's setting the bar really high. And we still have a really good relationship. I feel like it's always based around what I'm feeling in that moment. I talk to my parents every Sunday, both of my parents, which Meg lovingly calls our Sunday meetings. If there's Sundays where I'm like really overwhelmed and I'm like, hey, it's not gonna happen, it's no worries. Most of the time I'm calling her two to three times during the week, but it's always like me reaching out and doing it on my terms. If I'm having moments where I'm stressed or have high anxiety, I can make the choice of like whether or not that's something I want her involved in. And I think that's been really helpful.
SPEAKER_01You've spent a lot of time away from your home, whether it's college or other places. Having such a strong mother presence in your life has led you to kind of open up to needing that in other spaces. Talk to us a little bit about kind of those other moments in your life where you've needed a mother figure and how like kind of pseudo-moms have stepped in for you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So when I was first moving to Smith, and now once again, like moving to Denmark, I'm like, oh my gosh, I have no support system, or it feels like I'm going somewhere without a support system. And that's really terrifying at 18 and again at 22, where it's like, okay, I have a place where I'm really confident and I feel really comfortable, whether that's home or now that's here, but now I'm going somewhere that I don't know anyone. And I think in a lot of ways, going to a team helped from the social aspect of college because I was like, okay, there are people who are going to hang out with me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And that was like really scary, being like, I have really good friends here, but like, is that ever gonna transfer? And then I think when my grandfather passed away, little things that you did to like make sure that I was okay and kind of letting me set the terms of how I wanted to be involved with the team at that point was really helpful. The other person who I'm thinking of is uh Maggie, who's a mom of kids I babysit for at home. She has four kids. Um, when I met her, she was very pregnant with their third. And I started going over there as like a mother's helper kind of thing just to hang out when their youngest was not even a year old yet. He's gonna be in second or third grade this year, which is crazy. But I think the moments I think about them was the COVID summer, so 2020. I was diving three days a week. We were going to an outdoor pool. So I would like drive 40 minutes to go to this outdoor pool. And then the other two days, I would go spend eight hours at their house. Just like hanging out. Literally, I often felt like I was like in the way. I was like, I don't want to like do anything crazy. Having that outlet at that time was so important to me because it was like other people that I got to spend time with, got to actually be physically close with, which was really important for me at the time. And then getting to watch her kids grow in that way was so cool.
SPEAKER_04And I can say, I can say, as a mom, there's no way you're in the way. Like what I would give for a mother's helper to be like, hey, can you pick this up? Can you get like you got that kid? Can you do those dishes? Can you clear that? Like, yeah, oh my God, I'm sure you were incredibly helpful.
SPEAKER_03And I still get texts from her, like often being like, We had pizza for dinner tonight, and the kids saw the ranch in the fridge and thought that they would pull it out for you because I love ranch on my pizza. I'm very Midwest in that way. No one else in their family likes ranch on their pizza, despite all being from Minnesota. But like, I'll get texts being like they remember that time too, and that's so important to me.
SPEAKER_01And how did that relationship with Maggie impact you?
SPEAKER_03It was like my first exposure to kind of that style of parenting. She definitely does the like gentle, like childled parenting, but has like expectations for her kids similar to the way that I think you do. And so that was my first experience with that. And it was like fascinating to watch. And I think I bring a lot of it into my education classes. I've told her that her kids are examples in papers and things that I'm writing because that's the experience with kids that I have. And so I think not only did I get to watch that, but then I was like, oh, this is like a cool way for a family to exist. And growing up, my dad traveled a lot, and then my mom was working a lot. And so we had nannies that we like loved and adored. She stayed at home with all four kids. And so it was like just such a different view on like motherhood and how they ran their household that it was really important to me at that time to kind of see all the different variations of what that could look like.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I love that you had an opportunity to see different styles of family and motherhood. I know when I was growing up, my mom was also a stay-at-home mom. And something I've struggled with as a working mom is feeling a little bit like I don't have a lot of examples of women in my life that were balancing work and motherhood. My mom was a rock star stay-at-home mom, right? And I love her to death, and she's like, we still have an amazing relationship. But that is something that I feel that I struggle with a little bit. And I love that you now have had kind of almost like two extreme examples. Like your mom who did the the two masters, a PhD, all these things. And then this, you know, Maggie, who's home with four children. Like those are two pretty far ends of the spectrum. And I love that you've been able to be exposed to both of those things to help inform whatever path you end up on. Right, exactly. So you had this amazing relationship with Maggie. Yeah. And then where where in the timeline are you meeting Meg in there? Like, help me understand that relationship and how it evolved.
SPEAKER_03Summer for her senior year, decided I was gonna come to Smith. We like texted like very intermittently. Like, oh, I applied, oh, I got in, whatever. I feel like we got pretty close my first year, and then we went to visit when her youngest was two weeks old.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think.
SPEAKER_01So I have a picture. You guys were like some of our first visitors.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I have a picture. That was the first time I was ever at your house. Yep. I have a picture of me holding her, and I was like, oh my god, this is so cute. I love that.
SPEAKER_04Now you alluded to having some loss in that time. And like, did Meg help you through that situation, or what did that look like?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so my grandfather passed away, which was my first kind of living relative that I remember passing away. And that was tough. I remember just coming in the next day, and you're like, okay, like what do you need? You were like, we can do a crazy hard practice, we can like take whatever you need. And I was like, okay, I like having this autonomy to kind of be like, okay, like what am I feeling today? How do we want to deal with that? And then two weeks later, we kind of had another loss, which was like back to back was really tough. Um, and once again, you're like, if you need to go deal, like, go deal. Yeah. And that I think was really helpful in the sense where I was like, okay, I am the person outside of just the athlete, which I think is so important in a like true coach-athlete relationship. And then in the spring, one of my uncles passed away. So it was kind of just like this weird random snowball. Going to Meg always felt somewhere that I was like very safe and like could have those feelings, especially when the rest of my family is grieving.
SPEAKER_04It reminds me of we did an episode on coaching, and you used the phrase the coach is your one touchstone, right? Through your college career, like you have different professors and whatever, but like your coach spans the four years, and it seems like what I'm hearing you say is that Meg was kind of a consistent for you. When things were going on, whatever it was, you could kind of have her as an anchor point to keep coming back to.
SPEAKER_03I certainly saw Meg more than I saw like any other adult figure. And so it was like that consistency is really helpful, especially in such a big transition.
SPEAKER_04It's warming my heart too, because I also used to be a coach. Like, yeah, and so hearing an athlete speak about their coach in that way, like that's what you strive for as a coach, to be a person for them that they can go to, who you see them as more than just the athlete, right? Doing the dives. You're like, this is a whole person, and my job as a coach is not just to make them the best diver they can be, but also the best person with the like skills that they need to like get through life. So, like I just love all of them. Okay, but now now you you mentioned this that you only had Meg for two years. She moved on to you know something else. And how did your relationship with her evolve after that?
SPEAKER_03I went through a breakup and then 10 days later, Meg left. And so that was a crazy turd of events. And so I think we both had this moment we were like, okay, like what comes next?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03And I think we like talked on the phone a couple of times that summer, and then in the two years since then, it has evolved from me like coming over to babysit or like things like that to me texting and being like, I'm coming over on Wednesday.
SPEAKER_01And I think in that scenario, there was a lot of mutual respect in what you were going through with through your breakup and my exploration of what I was doing next and this idea that you needed me as that pseudo-mom figure in your life while you were at college.
SPEAKER_03And I think my parents especially even appreciated that I had that other space because because my parents have always been like, if you need me, I'm going to show up, kind of people, which I so appreciate. And I think they appreciated that I had somewhere else to go. They meant they didn't have to hop on a plane.
SPEAKER_04But I also think it makes sense as a parent, you know, obviously I want my children to come to me for whatever, whenever they need it, all and night, day, night, whatever it is. But I also want them to know that they can find that in other people. I don't want to be the only person that they can get that from. And I've seen this, you know, as they go to school or go to daycare and make other friends or do sports and like have a coach relationship or a teacher relationship, and they can get elements of that from other people. It's really rewarding to be like, okay, I'm hopefully a big piece of this puzzle, but it's still a puzzle. And there's other people contributing to the overall well-being. And as they say, it takes a village. So I'm sure your parents are feeling of course they're there for you no matter what. But like, again, at least we're all together on the play, and there's another person, another perspective, someone we know and trust that can contribute to your well-being.
SPEAKER_01And I think like to that point, Mayor, there's so much strength that comes in parenting to allow the freedom of your child to lean on someone else in a way that you know, Catherine was able to lean on me, or that like I've been able to lean on other women in my life. I think when we look at this big picture, strong women build strong women, and we need those people in our lives. And to be able to be strong enough and comfortable enough in your relationship with your daughter to be able to recognize that there is someone else in that space that can not necessarily do your job or fill in for you, but can help your daughter. In a way that you might not be able to.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01And to to essentially free yourself of that power or like necessity to help your daughter. And I think that was kind of where we were in that scenario. Yeah. And I so appreciate your parents for allowing me to be that person for you. I think we'll have this relationship in some form or another for the rest of our lives. Right. And like I think with Maggie, you're gonna have this relationship for the rest of your life. Mirror, do you have anybody in your life that you leaned on or was able to kind of step in as like a pseudo-mom type? I mean, I have to start with my actual mom.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, Jules is the best, an angel on earth, a goddess of everything. Like she's just phenomenal. I look up to her in every way it's possible to look up to a person. Shout out to Julie. Like, I love her to death. I think when I think about other pseudo-mom figures, I don't necessarily think about like pseudo-mom, but there are definitely women in my life that I've looked up to. I think of my dance teachers when I was growing up, my coach in high school. I was like obsessed with her. Like now looking back, I'm like, she must have thought we were crazy people. Like I think back to stuff that we did on like she must have thought we were so annoying, but like looked up to her so much. And um, the owner of the studio where I grew up dancing, so much admiration for her. And you know, she was a business owner running her own studio and watching, you know, the way she moved about the world was just so inspiring to me. And then I think about the workplace, right? So I'm in a corporate work environment, and I think of honestly, I've said this story to many women as I've been networking. When I look back at my career, almost every single job that I've had, and certainly the first like five or six in the company that I work for were because of women that saw something in me or pushed me towards something. The very first job I ever had, I interviewed for an executive admin position that I was in no way qualified for. But the woman agreed to interview me. And the HR recruiter was like, take the interview. You're not gonna get this job, but take the interview. And I didn't get it. I got, you know, took a different interview than I got, which was fine. It's the same company. But a year later, that woman that I interviewed with remembered me and tapped me for another role in her organization and said, You should come and do this. And that was where I met another strong woman who helped develop me in that career and gave me a leadership opportunity, pushed me to do new things. I also have was part of our women's group at work, and that introduced me to another woman who tapped me for a role on her team. Like I could go on and on about opportunities where women had each other's backs and said, Hey, you would be good for this. I see an opportunity for you. Come try this out. And I never would have done it if not for them. So I owe so much of my success in my life to my mom, to my dance teachers, to women who I worked with who advocated for me when I wasn't in the room. So yeah, I could go on about this for hours, but let's pause. Meg, what do you have in your life for pseudo-mother figures and real mother figures?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So shout out to my mom, Sheila. Honey. Honey, as she is known to her grandchildren. Um, my mom growing up was a stay-at-home mom until my brother was in school. So most of my childhood and my father traveled a lot. So she was around all the time. She really saw my potential. She challenged me, she pushed me. She is now a phenomenal grandmother. My kids are obsessed with honey.
SPEAKER_03I mean, you've heard I've heard I didn't know her full name. I only knew her before today. I only knew her as honey.
SPEAKER_01So shout out to what a phenomenal grandmother she is. So I had a huge moment in my life where my parents actually moved away from me. So I stayed in my hometown in my early 20s and my parents moved. And in that time, I kind of had a similar relationship with my supervisor, uh, Marla, who kind of took me under her wing as like another member of her family. She would talk about me kind of as her like fourth kid. Yeah, fourth kid. You know, and I spent a lot of time with her family and learning her craft and her business because she was my supervisor, and having a place. And I think that's what's key to all of this is like having people and having strong women in your circle and in your corner, and that you always have a safe place to go to. I'm so grateful for my mom in these scenarios where you know, I had a neighbor, Tiffany, who I would go and hang out with on a regular basis, who had like two tiny toddlers who are my brother's age, but like Tiffany and I would just like hang out and chat all the time. And then I had Marla, who was able to kind of, like I said, bring me in to her family when my parents had moved away. So just so grateful for my mom who was able to allow me the gift of feeling empowered enough to go have these relationships. And I think that's very important to feel uh empowered. You don't feel like, I mean, I don't think you ever felt like having a relationship with me was like betraying your mom. Right.
SPEAKER_03My parents, and I think generally like the attitude of like, well, the more people who love my kids, the better. Yes is like really important.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I think that's hard for some moms. I think that parents want to be their kids' person. And I don't think they always can. And I think that that's a challenge. And so for your parents to like instill that in you in such a young age and have you be able to go out into the real world and find what you need because that is instilled in you and you're empowered to do so, I think is really cool.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04I think you hit the nail on the head when you said strong women build strong women, right? And being able to look at your life and f seek out other strong women who can teach you something, who can have your back, who can fill a gap that you're not getting in another relationship somewhere else is so important. I feel like sometimes women get this bad rap of like backstabbing each other and being catty or whatever, but like and they are. It can happen. But I think when you find the real ones, right? Like real queens fix each other's crowns, right? You're going to Oh, I love that, right? Like you don't backstab each other, you don't trip each other like when they're walking down the red carpet. Like you'll be like, oh, your bra's showing, and like fix it, right? Like you've got each other's backs, and the more you can find women like that on your life, the better.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so bringing it back to Mary, you mentioned this at the top of the episode. Catherine having these touchstones of her mom and then Maggie and myself, and being able to see different versions or different takes on motherhood. Catherine, talk about your relationship with my kids and how, you know, I mentioned it in your intro, like you are their big sister. And what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_03I want to be the fun person in your kids' life so badly. I want her big sister, she's the coolest. Exactly. I would show up, like pretty regularly, I show up with dessert because I'm like, that's the way that the kids will like me. When your youngest had food allergy things, I was always making sure that like what I was bringing was safe and like really trying to make sure that that happened. And that relationship is so important to me because they're so much fun. And I think that that's like where the joy of it comes in so much. And being at school and like having the stress of all of that, showing up and having these little humans that are so excited to see you and so excited to hang out with you and think you're so cool is like so important to me. And it was the same with Maggie's kids. Every time I go over there, they're all so excited to see me, and I'm so excited to see them, and I want to know what they're doing in school. And Meg's kids came and hung out with me and my roommates like two weeks ago. They like drove them up to my house and we hung out with them for six hours or something. Like dinner. It was crazy. It wasn't cool. We hung out outside. I love that for you. It was great. Alan and I had a great day today. My roommates are also so obsessed with the two of them. And so fostering that relationship is so important. Knowing a lot of my friends are moving to Boston is like actually very comforting to me because I'm like, okay, if I'm coming to Boston, I can rent a car and I can drive here for a night and I can see the kids. Like someone, someone literally was telling me, being like, you're gonna have to come back here as much as you go to Minnesota because like you have to see the kids. I was like, Yeah, I know I have to see the kids.
SPEAKER_04What does that mean for you? Didn't have this person who is like like the cool aunt, the big sister.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I it's I mean, it's beautiful to me. It's very cool. I mean, last night you were over for dinner, and two two things, right? Like, we went and picked up the kids from school, and they didn't scream my name, they screamed Catherine's name and ran out the gate and like hugged Catherine, and I was just not even there, apparently. But then after dinner, you were hanging out with my daughter, and you asked her about one of her stuffed animals, and she was like, It's from Build-A-Bear. And you were like, Oh, I love Build-A-Bear. And she was like, Someday you and me can go to Build-A-Bear. You can come to my house and you can stay all day, and we can go to Build-A-Bear together. And like that is that for me is so heartwarming, and just to see how much they love you. And I think that's what makes all of this so cool is that it's generational, right? So your mom, and then there's me, and then there's you who's then seen my kids, and my kids are now looking up to you as a strong woman, and watching me uh allow you to be there for them and to be their like their person in these moments. And your mom sees the relationship you have with it's just this whole generational thing of strong women.
SPEAKER_04I want to add to that that you mentioned that you had someone like that, and now you're doing that for Catherine, and like in that in that vein of generational things, right? Like you had someone do this for you, and now you're passing it along, and who knows what you'll go on to do. And it seems like you're already giving that to Meg's kids. So it's like just good begets more good, is what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_01I mean, there's I mean, there's a lot of modeling there. And I think that's I mean, modeling is a huge thing for me, and I think that's very important. But just to have you in their life allows them to see that these relationships can be built and these relationships can be made. When your daughter said that about the build affair, I literally almost started crying.
SPEAKER_02I was like, Oh, I'm leaving in like five weeks. Like, what's gonna happen? And she came over and she gave me a hug, like like sensed that that like something was going on, and like came and gave me a big hug. It was so cute.
SPEAKER_01It was really cute. You she could she could sense your like emotions. My kids are very empathetic, very empathetic. Cheers, cheers, okay. All right, Catherine, thank you for sharing all of that, you know, all of your stories and kind of touching on this idea of pseudo-moms, mother figures, and what women can do for other women in their lives. Okay, so we are going to jump into the moms off script rite of passage at the end of our episode here as we wrap things up. Do you know what we're about to do? I do. We are gonna do the lightning. Okay, so quick fire answers. These are gonna be very general. They're not necessarily gonna be about like motherhood or like some of them are related to this topic, some of them are not. We're gonna log in.
SPEAKER_03I got this. Okay.
SPEAKER_01All-time favorite class in college.
SPEAKER_03Wait, so we're missing the age of Trump.
SPEAKER_02Wait, I love to take that class.
SPEAKER_04I'm just saying favorite dive of your career. 53, 33. Favorite national park you've ever visited. Yellowstone.
SPEAKER_03Favorite vacation you've taken with your mom. We used to do craft vacations where we would rent. This is so us. We would rent a little house up north and we'd go and scrapbook and craft for a couple of days.
SPEAKER_01Wait, I love that. It was so much fun. Yeah. Okay, okay, cool. Best advice your parents ever gave you.
SPEAKER_03Not advice specifically, but I think they've always just been like, go do the thing that makes you most happy.
SPEAKER_04Best piece of advice a diving coach has ever given you.
SPEAKER_03Fuck it, chuck it.
SPEAKER_01Favorite thing one of my kids has ever said to you.
SPEAKER_03Your youngest called me Katherine for a while, just as my name. And I think that might be one of the favorite, my favorite names that I've ever been given. Love it, love it. Recent craft that you're most proud of. I make birthday cards for people, and I think that some of my birthday cards lately have been really nice. I have like a stack that I keep stashed in my desk case. Favorite Taylor Swift album. Tortured Poets came out at a really convenient time in my life. And I think that that was like, it was like really good. Favorite Taylor Swift song. I can do with a broken heart.
SPEAKER_01What is your favorite thing to do with your roommates?
SPEAKER_03We were up until 10:30 last night, laughing so hard over literally nothing.
SPEAKER_04Last one, what are you most looking forward to in Copenhagen? Being so close to the ocean.
SPEAKER_01Cool. You passed. You crushed it. You passed. Yay!
SPEAKER_00That was a solid high five.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that was so good. I loved that conversation. I loved everything Catherine talked about with mother figures, pseudo-mother figures, strong women building strong women. It was just that was so great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was so fun to sit down and talk to her. I know she's been wanting to do this since we came up with the podcast. And that's kind of all I've been talking about for the last year. So really, really excited to sit down and have her join us on the pod. So before she heads off to the next adventure of her life and I never see her again, which is a joke. I hope I see her again. Um I know I will. But you guys can catch clips from our episode with Catherine on TikTok and Instagram, moms off script. You can also catch us on YouTube Shorts. You can listen to the full episode wherever you get your podcast. Download on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts, as well as YouTube.
SPEAKER_04And if you want to send us an email, you can email us at momsoffscript at gmail.com. Send us your thoughts about the episode, your questions for us. Tell us about your mother figures in your life. We want to hear from you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And we will see you next Thursday. Bye. All right. Moms Offscript is created and developed by Meg Adeline and Mary. Subdesign and videography. Meg Adeline and Mary Back to Photography, Shell Mind, and Photographic Design.